pokey
2nd Round
Posts: 190
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Post by pokey on Nov 5, 2009 21:42:08 GMT
Apparently Wickmayer and Malisse have been given 1 year suspensions for doping violations; he apparently missed a test while she failed to give her whereabouts to the testing organization properly on 3 different occasions. I'm surprised at how insane these suspensions are in all honesty. (I think the idea that players have to tell the authorities where they will be at a chosen hour each day is nutty to start with but even so) Wickmayer didn't actually fail a test so one year just seems draconian to me.
Maybe it's the influence of other sports and their drug testing measures clouding my head, but I just feel like this is excessive. It's also been speculated that this is some sort of Agassi backlash; sort of like 'look at how tough we really are' and I hope that's not the case. That's not fair to Wickmayer or Malisse. She especially has played really well lately and I could potentially have seen a breakthrough year for her next year.
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Post by falafaclese on Nov 5, 2009 21:43:38 GMT
Yanina Wickmayer has been suspended for one year . . . yes that's right one year for not reporting her whereabouts to th anti doping panel on 3 separate occasions. Wow. So now they're ruining people's careers without even requiring evidence of actual doping?? This seems absolutely insane to me.
Whoops, looks like we were thinking the same thought at the same time, pokey, although i hadn't heard about Malisse's punishment.
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Post by acre on Nov 6, 2009 0:46:22 GMT
That's fucking ridiculous. Okay, Malisse missed a test - obviously all his previous tests have been clean, why not just give him an immediate test (which would be clean I assume), and then maybe give him a minor suspension, slap on the wrist kind of thing?
And Wickmayer is certainly not faultless, she should be more up on things and requirements, missing 3 reports is a bit much, but again - clearly she has tested clean in the past, do another immediate test, short-term suspension and stern lecture that she gets no more chances.
But a goddamn year is one hell of a long time, fo 2 people who have never ever tested dirty(again, I'm assuming that's so - figure we would've heard about it otherwise)! Malisse is 29 for god's sake, it's not like he has years left to his career, and on the other side of the coin Wickmayer just barely turned 20 and started getting some good results, this is majorly going to fuck up her career and progress.
And thanks so very fucking much Andre Agassi, I don't believe for a hot second that his recent revelations didn't contribute to this.
I think it's absurdly excessive - I'm all for keeping tennis clean and drug free, but shouldn't there be some actual evidence of drug use before the hammer comes down? Why yes, yes there should! Absolutely players should comply with the testing requirements, but this is totally "guilty before being proven innocent". In fact, it's just guilty,guilty, guilty don't bother us with the facts, guilty I say!
Damn this pisses me off big time. Neither player is a particular favorite of mine, or someone I've followed much, but that is so not the point! What's next, and what defense do the players have? So now will they always be "tainted" as drug cheats when in fact they never did any such thing? Tennis is going to need to get a little more reasonable about this stuff, I mean I do agree they were both at fault and some discipline is appropriate, but my god let's make the punishment fit the crime! Seriously, there is NO evidence, no shadow of evidence that either of them actually are dirty, and yet they're being treated as if they have confirmed performance enhancing violations.
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Post by vallegirl on Nov 6, 2009 7:28:19 GMT
This is clearly a result of Agassi's confessions, but it's taking the exact wrong lesson from this. It's the favoritism and classism of the sport that indulged Agassi and allowed him to get away with failing drug tests, not that the punishment for failing those tests weren't severe enough.
Severely and excessively punishing Malisse and Wickmayer isn't going to stop the next narcissistic superstar from knowing he or she can get away with anything as long as they put asses in the seats. It's just reinforcing that punishment is for the outer court suckers.
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lt
Semi Finals
Posts: 3,223
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Post by lt on Nov 6, 2009 14:27:06 GMT
They can't. By handing over all drug testing and consequences to WADA they gave up their right. This is why the player's association needs to be stronger. They were never happy about WADA taking the drug testing but ITF/ATP/WTA/etc. ran roughshod over them to save money. Talk about penny wise/pound foolish!
When was the 60 Minutes interview with Andre done? I want whoever did the interview to know what has gone on recently with drug testing to ask Andre some hard questions about what his revelations will do and how it impacts the current players. I don't think these suspensions have anything to do with Andre--the timing is too tight and WADA doesn't work that fast to get suspensions going--but they are examples of what can happen. (eta: oooh, nevermind. Turns out that these cases have been going through the system for over a month and WADA [or the Flemish committee acting for them] was believed to have been going in the "slap on the wrist" direction until recently. So I'm changing my mind--this does smack of WADA showing its d*ck size.)
I still blame the governing body of tennis. They were too lazy and cheap to do the drug testing correctly and they were the ones who turned their blind eyes to failed tests in the past. I would bet extremely good money that there are more than a few top players from the 70s/80s/90s giggling into their hands about failed tests. Tests that WADA knows about from any disclosure agreements that tennis would have had to have released when they went through the contract process.
eta: I'm going to keep my eye on Lincecum and the pot charges that will go through MLB. Obviously not a PED and the citation occurred after his season was over. How that is dealt with will show the differences between a sport governing itself and letting the all-powerful WADA take control of your sport.
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pokey
2nd Round
Posts: 190
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Post by pokey on Nov 6, 2009 17:43:09 GMT
I didn't realize until recently that the ATP/WTA had turned everything over completely to the WADA; I think that's insane and another example of why the player's association needs to really step up and make something happen for the sake of the players. A one year suspension without even failing a drug test should terrify all the players, not that they shouldn't have already been terrified about 2 year suspensions for negligible traces of recreational drugs. I think this is completely the WADA trying to look tough and I hope that Wickmayer and Malisse are able do something on appeal.
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lt
Semi Finals
Posts: 3,223
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Post by lt on Nov 6, 2009 21:53:17 GMT
Whoa. If anyone needed any proof that WADA and its representatives (in this case VDT) are out of hand, how about this from the ITF:
How the hell was the ITF not informed before the, oh, I don't know. . . MEDIA! And if these cases have indeed been in the works for a month how did the ITF not know anything about it? Who's running this show? Of course, since they used the words "in writing" this smacks of the ITF hiding their heads in the sand so that they can escape blame. I'm not going to make big 20-century geopolitical comparisons here but man, it's hard not to say what this reminds us all of, isn't it?
It looks like Malisse will not be able to appeal because of the cost. If the suspensions hold, right now he's calling it the end of his career. I might add, PLAYER'S ASSOCIATION (again). They should be stepping in and using their lawyers to take care of this mess. Okay, so I speak from the standpoint of the very powerful MLB Player's Association but this is just silly.
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Post by acre on Nov 7, 2009 0:07:46 GMT
This is just making me madder and madder! Give me a break, Malisse has to retire because of the time, trouble, and money involved in fighting it? So terrible. And also, again, some more, I totally blame Agassi. Here's a direct quote from the article about Malisse:
"The sanctions came as a surprise - only last month, it was expected that the two players would escape with just a reprimand."
Gee, what happened in the last month to change that? I think a reprimand is totally warranted in both cases, but this is just outrageous. Fucking Agassi, I had completely stopped hating him and come around to thinking he was probably a decent guy, but no more!
Oh, and I'll just add that I do feel sorry for Andre havin such a terrible childhood, and the serious emotional pain he experienced in that late 80's period - I don't wish that on anyone, but shut the fuck up now!
And again, as ridiculous as the requirements may be, they are part of Malisse and Wickmayers job, so you know - bad tennis player, no cookies for you! That's enough.
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Post by falafaclese on Nov 7, 2009 2:30:13 GMT
After seeing what has happened with these two players, I'm interested to see what happens when the ITF announces their finding regarding Serena's outburst at the Open. In my mind, the major issue related to Andre's revelation has to do not necessarily with doping repercussions, but with the disparity between how top players are treated and how lower players are treated. I wonder if the ITF will feel the need to make an example of Serena. I personally think a suspension would be excessive, but barring that, I wouldn't have a problem with some additional punishment if it came to that, although I realize that any fine would probably be purely symbolic given the amount of money she has made this year alone.
I'm looking forward to seeing Andre's interview on 60 minutes this Sunday.
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Post by roseha on Nov 7, 2009 3:43:43 GMT
I'm not going to watch Andre on 60 minutes. This all happened because he wanted to sell his book, and now two other players are being banned for a year with no evidence, while he got away with blatant lying and it wasn't even checked out. Believe me, he's not going to answer any question that puts him in a bad light over this, no matter how deserved.
It's really a shame if this causes the casual sports fans to suspect tennis players now, without any evidence to support it in most cases. Really unspeakable.
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Post by chestylarue on Nov 7, 2009 7:19:24 GMT
I didn't realize until recently that the ATP/WTA had turned everything over completely to the WADA; I think that's insane and another example of why the player's association needs to really step up and make something happen for the sake of the players. A one year suspension without even failing a drug test should terrify all the players, not that they shouldn't have already been terrified about 2 year suspensions for negligible traces of recreational drugs. I think this is completely the WADA trying to look tough and I hope that Wickmayer and Malisse are able do something on appeal. The WADA's rules are sooo Daraconian. There is a reason why players like Nadal and Murray spoke out about it. Not just to whine- but because it is so easy to be innocent and yet be found guilty- even without a guilty sample. WADA once came to Murray unnounced after he was suffering from severe jet leg at about 5 in the morning. One time Nadal's mother frantically had to get him back from the beach with his friends because they showed up unannounced. Yes- the players are supposed to report in advance where they will be in certain segments of the day- but it can be crazy. And with that you have to report when you are spending the night at you boyfriend or girlfriend's. Take an extra puff of asthma medication during an asthma attack like Volandri - be condmened as a cheater by WADA's McCarthy figure Dick Pound. Hey Coria- you took a pill that the courts actually found to be wrongly labeled and thus you were innocent. Tough luck!! Of course since you were an Argie that goes with it. I am all for a clean sport. I do not want steroids in tennis. But there has to be a line between keeping the sport clean and doing witch hunting. And it has veered towards witch hunting lately. I do think tennis is one of the cleanest sports out there. And this is why Andre- who has admitted he hates the sport- little action of tossing his chestnut of his lying and then grabbing the residuals of his book sales while current players - many who may be innocent- get their careers ruined. I don't care that he did crystal meth. I do care that he lied about it and now with his glib admission of lying about it has made imo an overly aggressive WADA system towards tennis even worse. B |
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Mpol
3rd Round
Posts: 444
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Post by Mpol on Nov 7, 2009 14:11:49 GMT
What utter stupidity.
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Post by acre on Nov 7, 2009 16:56:53 GMT
I don't think Agassi actually hates the sport - he hated being forced to play and live that life for a time in I guess the late 80's, but I do believe he came to love it again. But never ever nearly as much as he loves himself! I think we're all in total agreement that we want a clean sport, no PED's of any kind, and preferably not any meth-heads or alcoholics or whatever(though any I expect would severely negatively impact a player's abilities and results anyway)
but you're exactly right in comparing it to a witch-hunt, McCarthy-esque.
And I totally agree that there is a different standard for the elite and the journeymen/women. I mean Roger and Rafa are great guys, totally ethical, and very sharp and on top of things that are required, but in the event that some oops happened, they'd be given leeway that others wouldn't.
Serena, I don't know - theres no fine that would really make a difference to her, she's a multi-millionaire, so how to punish her? I wouldn't be opposed to her receiving a suspension. Not a freaking year or anything, but something.
This is all very depressing, and infuriating, and seriously hurting the reputation of the sport.
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Post by mooncreek on Nov 8, 2009 18:04:06 GMT
Fabrice lost his first round match to James Blake. Apparently, he isn't playing the Australian Open after all so that would be his last match.
Meanwhile, Marat is playing a qualifier (yet to be determined) in the first round, with del Potro awaiting in the second.
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Post by acre on Nov 8, 2009 18:34:55 GMT
Nooooo - Fabrice, don't go! I know you're not gonna win any big time matches, or be in contention deep in a Slam, but seriously we love you so much. I really thought he'd go for th Aus, just to be the only player to compete in 4 continuous decades that's a seriously big deal! I mean it won't matter to anyone in the general world of sports, unlike Fed's 15, but it will definitely matter to everybody who cares about tennis. Plus, you're Fabrice, you're fabulous.
Not that I really blame him for wanting to move on in his life, he has a family, has played 20 years(!) already, and will be 37 at the time of the Aus - which is antique for a tennis player. He doesn't owe the sport or the fans a thing, he's been an absolute joy throughout. I want him at the Australian, but regardless I wish him well in everything.
Hmpfh- that's making me think: he probably won't ever be eligible for the Hall of Fame, will he? I mean tennis is one of the easiest sports to make it in, a single Slam and you're pretty much a lock*, but Fabrice doesn't have those kind of flashy results. Maybe 3 doubles wins(2 men's, 1 mixed) and an additional 3 doubles finals will qualify him? Or y'know, they could put him in simply on the strength of being Fabrice! Fabrice! He's the Magician, c'mon Newport, you know you want him.
ETA:* okay, not quite, neither Gaudio nor Gomez are in, nor Mr Crabbypants Rios who didn't win a Slam, but was #1 for a bit. And the eligibility form does say "A distinguished record of competitive achievement at the highest international level, with consideration given to integrity, sportsmanship and character". And again, I say - Fabrice!
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